when india's own their own land they do about as well as other americans. >> nobody chooses poverty. we have been legislated by the federal government's both in the united states and canada. john: they have been taking care of you. that sounds like the best deal. >> well, by taking care of us that means providing social welfare programs. the only way to break the cycle of poverty, i believe, is by the recognition that every other canadian and american takes for grted, real property rights. john: in canada reserves are on by the government. so the indian hassome piece of paper that says this is my lot. >> but underlying that is the fact that in canada the federal government owns the land. john: so you can't borrow against it. >> you can borrow, get a mortgage, be bonded. there is nothing that you can have that will allow you to be able to go to the bank on your own without the minister cosigning that loan. john: does bring another guest. economist terry anderson. you find indians do much better when they own their own land. >> yes. i first get interested in this subject in 1976 when i